Gap Mountain Lions Club Yeah I did. Peter Biello: Yeah well what do you think Pat is. That's why we always go back to the physical evidence to support what they're reporting. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. We've met Fish and Game's BURDEN OF PROOF. But I was riding a mountain bike not far from my house. We'll also hear your stories if you have them again. And here we're talking about in this situation we're talking about it migrated from the West. So I don't understand really how how this this idea came to be but it is the main reason why folks believe that fishing game is is covering up the fact that there are mountain lions in the state again with no evidence. They sent he sent his scent those two samples with his to Wyoming an unfortunate Fish and Game Commission there did not get a positive read on it but send it back to Central Michigan University where they did a nuclear micro satellite DNA analysis and found no significant difference between that scat and other scats that were tested from the Rocky Mountain region. So try to take photographs if you see something like this. So what those ranges. JavaScript must be enabled for some features to display properly. Which which I think Pat and I have both experienced. Mountain lions (especially males) have incredibly large ranges that they defend from rivals. Had great trees behind it beautiful ferns on the ground so it brought me down on the site and the ferns on the ground matched. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. And really whenever you hear tiny code and long rope like tale it's kind of hard to pin this sighting on any other creature rather than an outline or just nothing else really matches that description. You can see two of them at Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness NH. Sam Evans-Brown: Well first I want to sort of explain why what the theory is but then also throw a bit of cold water on it because I don't think there's much much logic behind it but essentially is that if fish and game were to acknowledge that there was a population of Mount lions in the state there's a chance that something like a listing under the federal Endangered Species Act might happen and then there'd be you know some they'd have to put a plan in place to protect the species there'd be you know restrictions put on development. WMUR uLocal: On this trail cam video, an unidentified feline is spotted. In fact, Pat Tate concedes that hes been told of sightings from folks that he considers to be very credible, very woods savvypeople who know what a bobcat looks likebut those folks have never snapped a good photo or found a good track. Mike you're on the air. They used to roam the entire continent, but have become extinct in most US states. I wanted to get your thoughts on the mystique of the mountain lion start with you Rick. Patrick Tate: I don't believe it is. Sam Evans-Brown: I just want to say the bang and word you just heard I think to me exemplifies why it's really hard to come up with with positive you know 100 percent certain evidence that you've that what you've got is a mountain lions. Have you heard stories do you have questions about the mountain line. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. We we hear that there is allegedly a government conspiracy to deny the existence of mountain lions here in New Hampshire so I guess a local government conspiracy. Mountain lions remain an enigmatic animal for residents of New Hampshire, with New Hampshire Fish and Game reporting three to five sightings per week. Peter Biello: We at this e-mailed comment from Michael. Seems reasonable! As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all along the waykilled a beaver near the Quabbin Reservoir in Central Massachusetts, left behind prints and DNA at that site, and then was hit by a car in Connecticut. Peter Biello: This is NHK PR Good morning and HP are summer car raffle is back and now's the time to get your early bird tickets. So I certainly can't dispute anything that they said there's no evidence for me to go by to verify or say what my thoughts are on the situation. Right. Mountain Lions in New Hampshire-Fact or Fiction - YouTube Each person had their own copy and now it was identify the trees the species of tree matched. Peter Biello: Or send us an email exchange at an HP board. Here she is talking about how to identify a mountain lion. Peter Biello: Well yeah. Peter Biello: Hmm. Oh you saw him online. 1957. He played a pivotal role and he battled for recognition. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. Infinite Scroll Enabled. The panther, Fells concolor, is a beast of many names, most frequently referred to in New Hampshire history as catamount, but sometimes known locally as "Indian Devil" or "Carcajou", under which . Can you tell us about that story. What kind of animal is that. How many mountain lions are in New Hampshire? - AnswersAll They sent it already. New Hampshire Public Radio | Which brings us to the next question, what are the odds that some of these reported sightings (which, when I posted about this on twitter, I immediately started to get as well) are actually people seeing a mountain lion? As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. Sam Evans-Brown: Pretty well I was going to say it is nice to hear about how to identify the facial markings but probably I'd being a to identify the tracks is probably the more useful useful tool that one can have in their tool box. And there are thousands of mountain lions killed every year legally through hunting, and there have been untold tens of thousands of mountain lions killed by hunters over the last hundred years, says Mark Elbroch, the Puma Program Director for Panthera, a global wild cat conservation organization, So even the folks who live with mountain lions still have a fancy and see something thats not there to me thats incredible.. What's going on. And I think a lot of folks would like them to be around. We want answers. Erler is a senior naturalist at the Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. Rick van de Poll: Rick van de Poll so I was a non-believer as well. But no proof was offered. WMUR NH Chronicle Mountain Lions in NH Part I and Part II. Me Im willing to believe its possible that there are some out there. For over 38 years the Saddleback Mountain Lions have offered people a chance to give back to their community. A 140-pound male mountain lion was hit by a car and killed in 2011 in Milford, Connecticut. If youve got photo trap evidence of a Mountain Lion, send it in, and we'll send it along to the appropriate state or federal agency! Sam Evans-Brown: And when we talk about subspecies this actually leads to to an interesting tangent which is that the field of biology recently has been sort of revolutionized by the use of DNA to determine what subspecies are. But Absence of Evidence Is Not Evidence of Absence, Right? The second story window through about 30 feet away from it. And because you know things flow downhill and I was pushed to go investigate it more and met with the individual two or three times and there was a bunch of inconsistencies about the photograph. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. And when provoked no animal could stand before him elegantly put. From involving members in projects as local as cleaning up an area park or as far-reaching as bringing sight to the world's blind, Lions clubs have always . Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HD PR fine Peter Biello and today we're talking with folks who can tell us about the mysterious elusive mountain line and whether or not it is actually here in New Hampshire. Peter Biello: So let's say Rick that it was confirmed that there that there are mountain lines here in New Hampshire. Having not found any evidence is not the same as saying there are no mountain lions, its the same as saying we dont know. 1,470 likes. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. So that that's more or less I think why I'm here and why I got into this in nineteen ninety nine I found a what appeared to be a print of a mountain lion and that was in the Osprey mountains and I thought well OK that's that's a print. So I think in that story there's there's something for the believers and the nonbelievers and I and you know Mark L. Brock is who is a gentleman with the cougar Network told me this story is evidence that that if they were here we would know about it. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! I've collected scat samples I've got several in my collection. The states never denied mountain lions are here, and theyve never admitted mountain lions are here. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. Patrick Tate: Yes. Well let's hear from from Sue Morse again science director for the organization keeping track. SUE Morse naturalist and science director for the organization keeping track. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. Current conditions in New Hampshire would support a mountain lion, according to Tate, as forests have returned, allowing for prey species to become more prevalent. It's unfortunate that that kind of thing happens as often as it does. And Rick Van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. If so that's for us as an agency. 235 or nhandy@ledgertranscript.com. We're gonna talk about sightings in this part of the program as well we'd love to hear your story. The DNA the DNA that they were able to pull from the cat suggested that it was a dispersed mountain lion that came. You saw what you saw. Patrick Tate: Same here in New Hampshire too. I mean there was this one lady I remember and tough tomorrow. Someone's got to see one they're very secretive. So we're fixated on natural but there's other possibilities. To date, the Department has not received any verifiable evidence (photographic or DNA)of mountain lions existing in New Hampshire. Deer Bear Moose Grey Wolf Coyote Foxes Fisher Mountain Lion NH Wildlife History. Sue Morse: The big cat really commands the utmost respect not so much fear but fascination. Is there a way we can learn more about these dispersing mountain lions that may travel through the Granite State and that I would ask you certainly part about whether or not a he's spending too much time chasing down these kind of false leads or B would rather be doing something else that is more informative to whether or not we actually have or can prove that we have dispersing mountain lions in the state. Sam. I've seen him in the woods and that was not a bobcat but I was looking at. Caller: Oh yeah. Mountain Lions are a mythical creature in New Hampshire with strong feelings on both sides of the question: are there Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. It's listed as population of least concern. Mountain lion or cat running across. Thank you very much for that story really appreciate it. On a dirt road. So one thing I'll add we're talking about natural dispensers but talking with the conservation officer in the 1980s they recall going to a residence telling a person you can live here but your mountain lion can't. Is that typically what was happening there. Today on the exchange we discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. Reports without physical evidence are not dismissed, however Fish and Game cannot verify a sighting report without physical evidence. The Lions of New Hampshire: MD44 Links. But before I go any further I want to say we do not have sufficient game. The most common areas to see mountain lions in Arizona are in places of rocky and mountainous terrain. Today she talked with us a little bit before the show about why the mountain line is so compelling and why we want it to be part of our world. Second when I when they did forward it from Wyoming to to Michigan you know this was coming right from sample 18 and 19 had no remarkable differences from known mountain lions from Michigan or Wyoming. And listeners this has been a lively conversation we're sorry we didn't get to all the the e-mailed comments and the phone calls your stories are appreciated even if we didn't get a chance to hear them today. Not one picture of him online while the person meet with us. OK. That location they just described we had two or three Bobcats radio collared on just off the runway in Laconia airport. Known to exist in the state for over well over a hundred years. As wildlife biologists, wed be fascinated to say 'look look what was found in our state.'. Caller: It had to be a mountain lion convinced I was about 30. NHFG Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate identifies this cat as a bobcat. Thank you very much for being here. I mean so what what is the practical change that it would bring to New Hampshire if any. Sam Evans-Brown: You know the North America had a number of large predator species when humans first arrived in the continent. About Us Media Kit Calendar of Events Volunteer Visit Learn Events Membership Support Your Visit BUY TICKETS Know Before You Go Directions and Information Our Animals Live Animal Exhibit Trail Hours and Admission Calendar of Events Mountain Lion Population (In Each U.S. State) - Wildlife Informer Rick van de Poll: Oh yeah absolutely. So. Patrick Tate: Nice talk to you too. They kill big animals. Absolutely there are a lot of folks out there who for some reason need to create something that raises a stir and gets the attention of the media etc.. So it's six months of a large large predatory animal that moves great distances on the landscape that is not known if it went northeast west Salt and how many circles it did. It doesn't happen as much anymore. The current estimate is 2,000 - 2,700 throughout Arizona. And what was really remarkable about the whole thing was I was maybe a half mile down on all buildings. Have a photo. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. I just want to tell you a story that I read. Peter Biello: Let's go to Mike in Epping. County road and all of a sudden a big cat jumps out of the woods over a stone wall stood in the middle of the dirt road as I rode towards it. Patrick Tate: I would say well when social media first started they picked up the hoaxes became much more prevalent in the last four or five years hoaxes have died down completely. I didn't see him online. We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. And the cougar embodies that. Tell us your story. And it came out we could see it had and we could see its long swooping tail. Sam Evans-Brown: So I just had two thoughts which is that we hear a lot of these stories and all of us here have heard these stories. Thanks also to Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England and Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in about the natural world and how we use it. Anyways after three weeks I finally found the image on line on a field and stream photo contest and the explanation in the end was the person that set the camera out with another individual and they believed that someone who knew of the camera location saw the similarities put the can't picture on their SD card so it looked like that camera recorded the image that is. Do we have native species that could have exhibited this type of behavior leaving leaving a deer carcass up in a tree. I hope she's listening and she had spoke to a lot of different people ended up having a couple of sightings of her alone without sort of by accident. Yes. And it's not really strong. Ask Sam: Why Won't New Hampshire Admit There Are Mountain Lions Here Sam Evans-Brown: What he would have stopped as well I think is way way that the reason that mountain lion kept moving is because he wasn't finding anybody. 50 feet above the most. Sort of dropped onto the SD card of a camera he'd set up out in the wild. If you go on YouTube and search mount lion Pat you can see people patent their hundred pound kiddie like its regular mascot cat. Peter Biello: They make great mascots at least. Hunting is legal, but closely regulated by the state. Caller: I have yeah. If you missed part of today's program listen to the exchange. The report came in from a conservation officer. There was no sign of it. Its closest living relative is the cheetah. However, as far as I can tell theres no Deep State Conspiracy to cover up a breeding population of cougars in the Granite State. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. Okay. Mountain lions ( Puma concolor) are one of the six native species of wild cats in North America. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. So one thing that I find fascinating about this Connecticut cat was six months between the New York situation where they found evidence of it too when it was hit by a motor vehicle. For all the men out there that don't realize it. These young males are tracking looking for mates and if they don't find a mate they just keep moving and moving and moving. They absolutely do. There are mountain lion in Massachusetts. Numerous scat and fur specimens have been turned in as part of mountain lion report investigations; DNA identification has shown these submitted samples to be from domestic dog, coyote, bobcat andraccoon. He writes As a farmer I come across many outdoorsman looking to hunt our property had a conversation with one who believed very strongly that we had mountain lions in New Hampshire. The supervisor that hired me in the game division in October of 1978 passed on to me this whole big folder of mountain lion information and sightings going back probably a couple decades. No I saw a camel. And trying to figure out the little pieces to identify him so I bring up the names the differences but the appearances can be confusing for some. Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal. And it was unmistakable. Just one quick point I think I think when we we talk about these conspiracy theories the real story is that fish and game is an agency that that is short on budget and staff. Rick van de Poll: Well education is the real important thrust of of what all of us do as biologists and Game Managers and to make sure that a things like what Sam was saying that in spite of what you believe the mountain lions will not eat your children they will not steal your pets from your backyard and they will not necessarily be seen by you unless you're extremely lucky. Mark Elbroch doesnt think so. So what I'm getting back is the verifying and confirming of evidence what that was not there. Mountain Lion | Squam Lakes Natural Science Center All exhibit and hiking trails are CLOSED for the season. They create these big latrines that are very obvious. So what a neat experience. The unheralded hero of Apollo John Hubble the man who knew the way to the moon. It's completely possible that it may have spent time in New Hampshire and went undetected but had it stayed in the area ultimately it would have been detected over time. I don't know if she still is. Caller: And then there's the Lily Pond Road and then there's a six foot tall fence. They were able to do all that by genetics. So hey, just me shooting from the hip, maybe there are a couple mountain lions skulking about. So when we hear mountain lion there's also cougar there's wild cat there's Bobcat which is not a mountain lion maybe Patrick could you sort of spell out the different terms which are synonymous and which are completely different animals. Yet this young male traveled about 1,800 miles. The American Lion The Saber tooth Tiger and this was the one that survived. We discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. We'll hear from her periodically through the show. Peter Biello: So Patrick today Fish and Game no downward pressure on you to deny the existence at all costs of mountain lions here in New Hampshire. You've got you've got biologists right who are trying to make their make their way in the world make a career if you are the biologists who confirmed a sighting of mountain lions in the state that would be very good for you like you would be all over the news. So one thing I'd point out is we've been talking about situations with no evidence a number of them come in with photographs and yet what they fit what they description of the animal they saw and by the way I got a picture of what I saw.