If Adam and Eve's poop did not stink, then it meant that Eden was comprised of some miraculous plants that produced no waste products. Prior to Eve, did Adam have "reproductive" organs? There was no death or decay before The Fall. Thus, any uncovering of truth is a benefit to the kingdom. Rejecting God is not only sin, but it is also the overarching category of all sins. Genesis 3, The Fall of Man - Bible Truth The story of Adam and Eve was not the first story of the first humans, as many Americans falsely think. Once we see that Adam fell from grace and did not fall from his human nature, we . Having a conscience was an integral part of being created in God's image (Gen 1:27), to have God's law written on their hearts. The only clue we have is that they did not have children before the Fall, which seems to indicate a short period of probably a few weeks. Did Adam and Eve have sex in Eden? Thus Eve could not have been seen as menstruating before the fall since that would have rendered her ritually impure and incapable of being in the garden/sanctuary. After being created on the sixth day (Gen. 1:27), Adam sinned so quickly that his wife did not even have time to conceive a child before the Fall. Diane . And their love was fruitful after the fall, not b. Before the fall. "And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. Then Adam and Eve did it. Recently, someone asked me to explain why God cursed women with a monthly period. The text in question is from Genesis 3:22, where, following Adam and Eve's sin in the Garden of Eden, "the Lord God said, 'The man has now become like one of Us, knowing good and evil.'" (NIV) They were mortal in that they physically could have died even though they had not yet sinned. A better title would be "The Fall of Creation" because all of creation was affected. Dr, Craig: Well, I would say in response to James that when you read the Bible, there's nothing in the Bible that suggests that animal death is the result of the fall of man. We know the Fall wasn't immediate, as Adam and Eve were familiar with "the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day" ( Gen. 3:8 ). Thus Eve could not have been seen as menstruating before the fall since that would have rendered her ritually impure and incapable of being in the garden/sanctuary. Once we see that Adam fell from grace and did not fall from his human nature, we . 2 Nephi 2:22-23 says Adam and Eve had no joy while in the Garden. As for menstruation, the main way it's portrayed negatively in the Bible is that it was ritually unclean in the Mosaic covenant. Humanity existed, as stated, before Adam and Eve. Before the Fall the earth and all things upon it existed in a spiritual state (see 2 Nephi 2:22; Moses 3:5-7). Also, since God created night during Creation Week, it would be logical that Adam and Eve would have needed rest and sleep before the Fall. Did Eve lie before the Fall? Did death occur before the Fall? - Common-questions - BioLogos Published: 17 March 2007 (GMT+10) Image by Steve Cardno. Adam and Eve would have had no children had they continued to live in the Garden of Eden (see 2 Nephi 2:23; Moses 5:11). All bad things from weeds to labor pains to war came from The Fall. It meant Adam and Eve did not have digestive systems, stomachs, or even butt holes-because they . Adam and Eve were the first couple, so any children initially had to come forth from them—and only them. Adam and Eve - ldslearning.org It seems that the answer is that Adam fell from nature. This is indeed what is taught in church. And "Eve, also, his wife, did labor with him" (Moses 3:23-24; 5:1). Therefore, when Jesus died for our salvation, He gave up His free will because that was the state of man before the first sin. The original sin was an act of disobedience followed by Adam's ignoble blaming of Eve for his sin. As the story goes, God allowed Adam and Eve to eat of every tree in the garden except for the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. "Did Adam and Eve eat of the tree of life before they sinned? Genesis 3 says that Adam and Eve didn't know good and evil before they sinned. Freewill, Salvation, and the Fall It's much more in-depth than any Genesis studies I have done, but I've never been under the assumption that the story of Adam and Eve was a literal account. The ending just makes the man word into the feminine gender grammatically. . Here are 7 interesting things about the first garden that you may not have considered before. There was no death or decay before The Fall. According to the Fathers of the Church and St. Thomas, Adam and Eve did not have intercourse until after the fall. Since Romans 5:12-13 implies that Adam and Eve's children were born after the fall, that would imply that other children were born and the earth was being populated as children grew to hundreds of years of age after Adam and Eve were expelled from the garden. "And The Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living being." (Genesis 2:7). The scriptural evidence indicates that Adam and Eve did not have any children or understanding of procreation until after the fall. What city did God destroy? Given that, there is no direct textual evidence that reproduction did not happen before the fall, and given passages like Genesis 4:17, where no effort is made to explain the genealogy of Cain's wife, I think it is open to us to choose to believe either option: 17 Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. The Garden of Eden has fascinated people since the very beginning, and when we say "beginning," we mean that literally. There are precise theological and moral reasons for this teaching, too complex to go into here. Americans glad that Creation magazine is still available. After reaching puberty they became self aware, covering themselves, and had sex outside of the garden. They don't eat of the tree of life which would allow them to live forever in an unregenerate state. The fall of Adam and Eve had horrendous and lasting effects, but animals ate other animals, rain fell, and animals died for many, many years before Adam and Eve sinned, as is true from the fossil record. While man's sin ultimately affected the entire Creation (Rom 8:19-22), this does not mean that death did not exist prior to the Fall for plants or animals. capacities and powers above and beyond the powers of created human nature, but not beyond the powers of angelic nature. However, the curse of Genesis 3 was that Adam and Eve, not the animals, should die for their disobedience. The Seduction. Why not? This is indeed what is taught in church. Freewill does not exist until after Adam and Eve commit the first sin, and by being saved through Jesus, we achieve a relationship with God that resembles the garden of Eden before the first sin. The Hebrew word for 'man' is ish. So, man was created to rest—even before the Fall. After all God created Adam in He's own Image. Adams age starts to count after the fall. Before Sin. She did not have fertility issues (and Adam was not sexually immature or impotent either). Once upon a time, there was a big man with a white beard who lived in the clouds. They were the children. This means that man did not have to cultivate the ground before the Fall for food ( Genesis 2:15 —refers to Adam cultivating the Garden of Eden not the ground outside). God said He would increase her pains in childbearing. God made garments of skin for Adam and Eve after the fall ( Genesis 3:21 ). So, while man did not die before the Fall (Gen 2:17; Rom 3:23; 5:12-19), this does not mean that animals and plants did not die before the Fall. Adam and Eve were naked before the Fall without any shame, and this was a reflection of their innocence before the Fall. I have been involved in several interesting discussions lately involving friends asking me what I thought of the so-called "Curse of Eve." This "curse," which is generally used in reference to the pain of childbirth, is assumed from the text of Genesis 3:16a. He made a world, and in the world he made a garden, and in the garden he took some mud and made a little clay doll, and then he breathed life into the little clay doll and it became a man. Therefore, animal death before the Fall is compatible with Christian doctrine. There are too many gaps in the information contained in that chapter to get a clear picture. In the book of Genesis the earth was cursed to bare thorns and thistles, woman was given pain in child-bearing, but there's no suggestion in Genesis that animal death is the result of the Fall, that's simply not there. I believe, before the fall of man, that Adam and Eve also glowed with the glory of God through their mortal flesh, just like Moses. Adam is the head of their relationship. Being theologically consistent is very helpful to accurately interpret the Bible. And from this we derive our first argument and answer for whether Mary would have menstruated. The theologian Herman Bavinck writes: "Why did God create the world? For humans, Genesis 3 and other Bible passages may be speaking primarily of spiritual death, not physical death. Adam and Eve knew of God's promise that He would provide a Savior ( Genesis 3:15 ). Why the false doctrine of Total Depravity depends on "falling from nature". Therefore, we cannot say they did or did not. Out of the man, he made a woman, and he told them to go frolic . Before the fall, the love that Adam and Eve share, both spiritual and sexual, is in harmony with God's desire and plan for humankind. This radiant glory of God shines though in the most righteous, like it did when Moses came down from Mount Sinai. All bad things from weeds to labor pains to war came from The Fall. Branham explains, "He seduced her [Eve] and by her did Satan have a child vicariously. God also gave Adam and Eve the preternatural gifts, namely. Genesis 5:5 states that "Altogether, Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died.". Today, in our fallen world, proper amounts of sleep often refresh the mind and the body. In the Book of Genesis, the sexual life of our first parents is described as radically different before and after the fall. Many scholars understand this as the first . The Hebrew word for 'woman' is ishah. As they individually ascend toward Him on either side of the triangle, the closer they come to the Lord, the closer they will come to each other. So when Adam sinned he not only died spiritually, but took on a corporal body, therefore had to be thrown out of the garden. That radiant barrier probably provided heat as clothing does, and when it was removed they felt naked and went to cover themselves. Did Eve have a period before the fall? Adam before the fall was not doomed to die. Similarly, Adam and Eve, in the image of God, radiated God's glory. "Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of . However, if Eve had given birth before the Fall, she would not have experienced pain in childbirth. Adam was made to be animated with a soul or breath, not God's Holy Spirit. Still, let's take a look at the issue a little more deeply. It is to be between a husband and a wife…period. First, God is clothed in light; his Shekinah. Then God said to Adam, the day you eat from that fruit that Day you will surely die. That is, Cain and Able were the first children and other sons and daughters were . Thus, Adam before the fall was still awaiting confirmation in eternal life. Genesis 3:16 lists one of the judgments for Eve's sin as pain in childbirth: "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children.". Did Adam and Eve feel joy in the Garden of Eden before the Fall? When he built a city, he . Yes, Adam and Eve were mortal before they sinned. Adam and Eve most definitely believed in and depended on God. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. He leads by putting . Satan did that. 0 thoughts on " Understanding the Garden of Eden and the Fall from an Old Earth Perspective " Steven G July 26, 2016 at 5:18 am. As per Genesis chapter 4, Eve did not bear her first son (Cain) until after she and Adam sinned and were expelled from the Garden of Eden in chapter 3. The main feedback is from Bev N. of Canada who wrote to us about our article The Koran vs Genesis, raising some interesting questions about the Fall. Both Man and Animals ate Plants for Food (Genesis 1:29-30) The biblical record tells us that both man and animals ate plants, not each other, before the Fall. Their children "began to divide two and two in the land, and to till the land, and to tend flocks and they also begat sons and daughters" ( Moses 5:3 ). The Bible does not specifically state Adam was the first man ever to walk the Earth. the answer is: Because he so willed." God didn't have to tell us why he made the universe, but he wanted us to have specific knowledge about him (special revelation) that we could never acquire from observing and studying the physical world (general revelation).The Bible begins and ends in a beautiful garden with a life . However, a great deal of scientific evidence indicates it is much, much older. I answer the question in the affirmative, yes Adam and Eve had a conscience, even before the Fall. Before the fall, the first couple had an academic knowledge of sin and its fallout. It was now possible for Adam and Eve to have children, which they did. Answer (1 of 5): Even if you are a believer in the creation story, what would be God's point in making them with complementary genitalia if they never used them? Since the last two have to deal with pregnancy and childbirth, it is highly likely the first is also of the reproductive system and indicates pains during menstruations. God willed the difference between the sexes (Genesis I:27), since man cannot find a helpmate like to himself among the animal kingdom. But why think that matters? The Bible does not say how much time went by before the fall. Prior to Eve, did Adam have "reproductive" organs? Therefore it was neither a sin nor a fall for Adam and Eve to have sex, because, first, they are a married couple and God himself has given them the license to have sex through the command 'be fruitful and multiply'. Adam and Eve get tempted by Satan in the garden of Eden and succumb to the effects of evil and sin. Originally when created from Adam's side, Adam called her 'woman' because she was taken out of man. This is the Catholic heresy of Baianism - that Adam did not possess grace before the fall and that Adam "fell from nature". In Heaven you state that Adam and Eve ate of the tree of life. Our hair is the ruined, the extinct glory; and as is this hair of ours to rays of light, so is our present flesh to that of Adam before the Fall. Before banishing Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden, God outlined what life would be like in a fallen world. I have not read the entirety of "The Conflict of Adam and Eve with Satan," but I have encountered a couple of passages in it that may be relevant to my questions. I love, love, love this article. Thus, the original sin of man, Adam and Eve, was not sex but the disobedience of eating the forbidden fruit. God continued to talk with Adam and Eve and provide for them after the fall. Diane, While yet in the Garden of Eden, Eve was named based on the promise of her motherhood (Moses 4:26, Genesis 3:20).The realization of this promise could not come until after the Fall when Adam and Eve entered mortality. Did Adam and Eve have children before the fall? The main feedback is from Bev N. of Canada who wrote to us about our article The Koran vs Genesis, raising some interesting questions about the Fall. Mortality was a possibility, but not a necessity in their case. Thus, if Adam and Eve would have eaten the fruit from the tree of life first, it seems logical that they would have lived forever in their pre-fall, pre-sin, spiritually pure condition. And we do it. Due to the timeline as recorded in Genesis, and the reality of sin entering the world through one man, It is clear that Adam and Eve did not have children before the fall. How long a period of time between Adam and Eve's creation elapsed the Bible does not tell us. Sodom and Gomorrah, notoriously sinful cities in the biblical book of Genesis, destroyed by "sulfur and fire . On one side, I have had friends and colleagues argue that the… And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were . God says, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbirth" (ESV . The Bible does not say whether or not Adam and Eve had sexual relations in the Garden of Eden. The Garden is mentioned for the first time in the beginning of Genesis, the very first book of the Bible, and became the home of the very first couple, Adam and Eve.. There were many stories about many people long before Adam and Eve. Gramps, Could mother Eve have children before the fall? The sequence of events in Moses 5 indicates that sons and daughters were born to them even before Cain and Abel were born. After the Fall, Eve said, "Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed [children], and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient" 74. These did not exist before the Fall— weeds, thorns, and thistles came into existence after Adam sinned (Genesis 3:23). Answer (1 of 5): The history of Eve's name. Adam, if he had obeyed, would have attained to the consummated/glorified body without . The preternatural gifts include infused knowledge, freedom from concupiscence (the tendency toward sin and the disorder of our emotions as a result of original sin . If Adam and Eve's poop did not stink, then it meant that Eden was comprised of some miraculous plants that produced no waste products. Based on scripture now, the Earth is only a little over 6,000 years old. The scriptural evidence indicates that Adam and Eve did not have any children or understanding of procreation until after the fall. However, this is speculation. Adam's age can help us to gauge an upper limit on how long he and Eve might have spent in the garden. Question . However, whether other forms of life passed through procreation and death before the fall is not an issue on which the Church doctrine provides any official stance. From that point on Adam and Eve were separated from God. This premenstrual assortment of problems, called premenstrual syndrome (PMS), can include such effects as bloating, headaches, and moodiness, among other things. Answer . How could they be held morally responsible for sin without the knowledge of good and evil? It meant Adam and Eve did not have digestive systems, stomachs, or even butt holes-because they . It appears that, even before the fall, there would have been some pain in childbirth. This would have allowed them to have a much less violent relationship than we see today. Think of a triangle, with the bride and groom in the two bottom corners and the Lord at the apex above them. I do see some differences between their pre and post-fall relationship to sin, however. The Bible clearly shows that GOD, created Adam and Eve and all Creation to be for Ever. The eating of the fruit and gaining the knowledge could be compared to puberty. Clarify • Share • Report • Asked September 22 2014 • Ruth Deatley Second, I believe the Fall happened rather quickly after creation. Genesis 3:12. Life After the Fall. If yes, why does the Bible say that Adam "knew" Eve only after the fall? When Jesus emptied Himself of blood on the cross, He got a bloodless uncorruptable body like Adam had in the garden. There are theories that Eve mated with the serpent and begat Cain while Adam was the father of Abel. Here it is important to consider Walton's views on the state of creation prior to the garden and the event of the fall. Yet, Adam before the fall also did not have the consummated/glorified body, the fullness of the living forever tied to the tree of life. Adam and Eve were in the presence of God in the Garden of Eden (see Moses 4:14; Genesis 3:8). If, for example, Adam had fallen out of one of the trees and had injured himself sufficiently, he would've died. It sounds like she had already had children. We also know from Genesis 1:14 that the world was being measured in times, days and years by this point, so we can take this figure at its face value. Since there is a conjunction in the word for being pregnant, I'm inclined to say a list of three is the more accurate. Obviously that did not happen. En. Perhaps this is the reason the particular kind of serpent that deceived the Woman did not pass along the ability to speak or may have even become extinct since the Fall.2 The issue of the Woman being shocked when she heard the serpent speak also has a couple of problems. Her body was healthy, sexually mature at the moment of her creation. It seems that the answer is that Adam fell from nature. Second, some, Jews particularly, argued that the Garden was a very holy place. Adam stretched forth his hand to Eve. However, whether other forms of life passed through procreation and death before the fall is not an issue on which the Church doctrine provides any official stance. This is the Catholic heresy of Baianism - that Adam did not possess grace before the fall and that Adam "fell from nature". Before exploring responses to the perspective and examining the biblical texts more closely, this article will first present how Genesis 3:15 is interpreted by supporters of the serpent seed teaching. Did Eve lie before the Fall? "The Lord God said, "It is not good for the man to be all alone." That's why Jesus is the second Adam, who gives us access to God. Published: 17 March 2007 (GMT+10) Image by Steve Cardno. As we have seen, before the fall Adam was in a state of innocence …his spirit was joined to God's Spirit, therefore fellowship with God was intimate and unobstructed. ESV - 12 The man said, "The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate. Perhaps, in their evolving individuation their creator's gift of free will caused them to wonder what it would be like to be as smart as the mysterious force that made them. Many will argue that they even sinned prior to eating the fruit when Eve . Could it be that Adam and Eve were an idea of God in formation and therefore one with G-d in consciousness before the fall. Answer: You are right. She was referring to women's menstruation, including a possible combination of symptoms about a week or so before the actual flow of blood. We say, "The Fall of Man," but this can be misleading, since it sounds as though only man was affected. Thus, despite their archetypal nature (which Walton believes the New Testament affirms), Adam and Eve are indeed real people in a real past. As a result of Lucifer tempting Eve, God then put enmity between him and mankind. If the latter is the case, did the pre-Fall Adam have the Holy Spirit? After Adam sinned all that changed…in a split second his spirit was severed from the Holy Spirit (Gen. 3:7). Why the false doctrine of Total Depravity depends on "falling from nature". Conscience is a broader evaluative instinct than good and evil and includes differentiating between useful . The sunbeams around Adam's mouth bore reference to a holy posterity from God, which, had it not been for the Fall, would have been effectuated by the spoken word. Eve was tempted by Satan who took the form of a serpent. Adam and Eve eat from the tree and sin. It does not appear so. When they sinned, the glory was removed and, "they knew they were naked.". 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